Hi fellows ! As I promised last week I'm going to post the (still preliminary) results of the drive shaft failure/non-failure survey. Jesus, ... I can tell you .... this weekend I was rather busy reading all your reports and filtering out the data !!! !!! One more time THANKS A LOT to everyone who sent me his report !!! I'm still receiving mails with failure/non-failure reports and I am still working on the evaluation of those reports. As soon as I have compiled the data in a reasonable way I can post it to anyone who is interested in it. Posting that data to the list(s) seems not to be the right way ... I hate wasting bandwidth ;-). The most kind regards from the north of Germany -KATTY- ---
| Total bikes in this Survey | 105 |
|---|---|
| Total bikes with drive shaft failure | 23 |
| Total bikes without drive shaft failure | 82 |
| total | failed | NOT failed | |
|---|---|---|---|
| R-bikes | 84 | 21 | 63 |
| Paralever GS (year 90..95) | 43 | 13 | 31 |
| Non paralever GS (year < 90) | 11 | 3 | 8 |
| bike with unknown year | 5 | 3 | 2 |
| R11GS,R11RS,R11RT | 7 | 1 | 6 |
| other R-bikes (R65,R26,...) | 17 | 1 | 16 |
| K-bikes | 21 | 2 | 19 |
| R-bikes | ||
|---|---|---|
| Paralever GS (year 90..95) | 30.2 % | |
| Non paralever GS (year < 90) | 27.3 % | |
| bike with unknown year | 60,0 % | * |
| R11GS,R11RS,R11RT | 14.3 % | * |
| other R-bikes (R65,R26,...) | 5.9 % | * |
| K-bikes | 9,5 % | |
| min. | avg. | max. | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| R-bikes: | ||||
| Paralever GS (year 90..95) | 20,000 | 40,662 | 70,180 | |
| Non paralever GS (year < 90) | 40,000 | 61,333 | 73,000 | |
| bike with unknown year | 23,000 | 37,666 | 60,000 | * |
| R11GS,R11RS,R11RT | 14,000 | 14,000 | 14,000 | * |
| other R-bikes (R65,R26,...) | 35,000 | 35,000 | 35,000 | * |
| K-bikes | 98,000 | 107,500 | 117,000 | |
| min. | avg. | max. | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|
| R-bikes: | ||||
| Paralever GS (year 90..95) | 5,500 | 27,407 | 70,000 | |
| Non paralever GS (year < 90) | 30,000 | 44,400 | 61,000 | |
| bike with unknown year | 23,500 | 41,750 | 60,000 | * |
| R11GS,R11RS,R11RT | 10,000 | 27,333 | 65,000 | * |
| other R-bikes (R65,R26,...) | 7,000 | 64,631 | 180,000 | |
| K-bikes | 11,000 | 38,152 | 81,250 | |
| R-bikes: | road | dirt | 1-up | 2-up | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Paralever GS (year 90..95) | 86.8% | 13.1% | 92.5% | 7.5% | |
| Non paralever GS (year < 90) | 85.5% | 14.0% | 94.1% | 5.7% | |
| bike with unknown year | ? | ? | ? | ? | |
| R11GS,R11RS,R11RT | 86.5% | 13.5% | 64.0% | 36.0% | * |
| other R-bikes (R65,R26,...) | 99.9% | 0.9% | 95.2% | 4.8% | |
| K-bikes: | 99.6% | 0.4% | 78.6% | 21.3% | |
The above figures have been obtained using the following SQL statement:
"SELECT avg(road),avg(dirt),avg(OneUp),avg(TwoUp) from BIKE_GROUP;"
The raw data for this survey may be found here.
Note 1: Gravel roads have been counted as "Dirt"
Note 2: Rows marked with '*' are highly inconclusive due to small number of reports or inhomogeneous group !)
Franz-Josef KATGELY Draegerwerk AG - Medical Division Kst. 5550 Moislinger Allee 53/55, D-23542 Luebeck, Germany Phone ++49 +451/882-4372, FAX ++49 +451 882-2796 email franz-josef.katgely@draeger.com '91 R80GS
>>I have heard they are prone to fail without notice.
Nothing fails without notice, but the notice may be
AFTER the failure.
There are two types of failures 1. spline failure
at the rear drive 2. U-joint failure. Almost all
failures on this model are U-Joint related. They
seem to go about 15k to 35k miles.
Splines.. BMWNA recomended lubing the paralever
spline every 8000mi when I bought my PD in 1990.
This seems agressive for most people that ride
90% on the street. I believe 12,000mi for normal
conditions.
UJoints.. the symptoms are easy to ignore,
first- vibration, you could easily write it off to
a washboard road. I noticed larger vibration when
going through a dip, like at the bottom of a hill.
Ignored it.
Second - Feels like the brakes are dragging. Maybe
it is just windy? Stop and check, the wheel is very
stiff going forward, will go 6" backward, then stiff
that way too!
next- you hear a clunk-clunk-clunk when pushing
the bike in your drive or when turning the wheel
backward.
next to last- large clunks as large hunks of swing-arm
tube are chipped away. The u-joint is so loose that
the driveshaft is off center by 1/4". Big Bucks.
FINAL,Fatal - the rear wheel locks. Five people are
needed to load it in the U-Haul.
When you inspect your shaft, look at the four rubber
seals on each u-joint. There should be some clean
grease seeping out. If you see red rust here, or
the u-joint has a catch or any play; don't put it
back in. It won't last.
You can peer at the front joint if you remove the
front clamp on the boot attached to the transmission.
Put your finger, Carefully!!, in between both halves
of the drive shaft and (Carefully!!) turn the rear
wheel back and forth. There should be no play between
these. Do this with no one around.
Why does the R100GS fail, but not the R80GS?
- long shocks would put the joints out of line,
after-market shocks put the normal ride height
up and the joints work harder than the stock
soft shock.
- impacts, GS's have it tough compared to the
street stuff. How many times have you heard
the engine rev' then catch as the rear wheel
comes down. Not much on the ol' LT I'm sure!!
- heavy loading on the driveline, the R80GS's
don't have the torque of the 100's. My shaft
failed at 50k mi. after the GS Rendezvos. I
made many passes across the dry lake, in 5th
gear, at 4000-5000rpm, at full throttle. This
transmission and rear-end had to take the full
58 HP for 30 minutes straight. Then there was
the long sand washes... for two days.
Two days, Two wheels, Too much fun.
I had inspected the shaft 1500 miles before and
it was perfect. After,...no grease was noticeable
in the front joint, SMOKED! The rear joint was
still ok.
I believe these shafts would hold up if you could
get some grease in the u-joints every 12000 miles.
Who can rebuild these, in the USA?
Who has a good R100GS shaft laying around that needs
a new u-joint or two?
If we could get 5-10 to be rebuilt, it may pay for the
needed jigs.
This started to be a short note... guess I'm still pissed.
$550 for a shaft buys a lot of chains and sprockets.
Drop me a note.
------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Zuber
Eugene, OR 90 R100GSPD 'There are contradictions to all
dave@point.com 93 R100R statments, except this one`
87 XR600R
------------------------------------------------------------
>Some one asked (Fred Bieber I think) about drive shaft
>maintance. "Could you keep the housing full of grease?"
This was the solution for the R80GS's. These shafts ran
in gear oil to lube the ramp-sping cush drive, the rear
splines, and the UNSEALED u-joints.
The new para-lever rears have a dry shaft housing. The
cush drive is rubber. The splines you must grease by
hand. The u-joints are sealed for (short) life.
Does anyone have a solution to get clean fresh grease
to these u-joints?
------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Zuber
Eugene, OR 90 R100GSPD 'There are contradictions to all
dave@point.com 93 R100R statments, except this one`
87 XR600R
------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Zuber asked about the paralever U-joints: >Does anyone have a solution to get clean fresh grease >to these u-joints? Yes, there is a solution. It was published in MOA news a while back. Someone (in Europe I think) bought "regular (unsealed?) U-joints and fit them to his bike. He was able then to grease them with a standard grease gun. I don't remember it being a simple thing to do, but I've read things that folks have done that seeme more complicated on this list. I don't know what issue it was in but I believe it was in '94. If I HAVE to look it up for ya, let me know.
>>>Does anyone have a solution to get clean fresh grease
>>>to these u-joints?
>Yes, there is a solution. It was published in MOA news a while
>back. Someone (in Europe I think) bought "regular (unsealed?)
>U-joints and fit them to his bike.
Yes, I saw that article. This person found the right size of
u-joint and brazed it into the driveshaft. The BMW method is
to peen the opening over in 6-8 places after aligning it. The
u-joint they found had a grease fitting at the end of one
cross, which must be removed to install on the bike.
That u-joint must be cross drilled to get the grease to all
the cups. It may be weaker for this.
I have looked in the USA for a u-joint of the correct size,
not much luck, but they are available in europe.
It takes some new fixtures to install the new u-joints, if
I can get 5-10 driveshafts, this might pay.
------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Zuber
Eugene, OR 90 R100GSPD 'There are contradictions to all
dave@point.com 93 R100R statments, except this one`
87 XR600R
------------------------------------------------------------
Hi All - Just experienced u-joint failure (an unfortunate 300 miles from home) for the first time on my '91 GS. First, questions: *Anyone got info on the maker/specs for the replacement joints? I've found a shop willing to try installing / balancing new joints on my old shaft, but haven't gotten to finding the joints yet. *Anyone found a replacement joint w/ a zerk, or did you have to drill and tap it yourself? I'd like to postpone the reenactment of my all night trailer run to retrieve my bike from Grand Coulee. **Thanks in advance for any info you can offer me. Second, preventative observations: Ever have a u-joint go out on your car? Notice it beforehand? A few weeks ago, I began to notice a new sound on my GS. I thought it sounded like impending u-joint failure (based on my car experience of munching three in the past two years) but wasn't sure. Since I couldn't crawl underneath and wiggle the joint for confirmation, I decided to wait and see. In Colombia plateau farmland on a vacation tour, I got confirmation: it was my driveshaft. Here's my best description of the sound: Sounds like engine vibration - same basic frequency and "texture" - but modulates slowly up and down in intensity. Pretty subtle. I noticed this best at low throttle and steady running. Basically, a sound that sounds much like the engine noise thrumms up and down in volume, with a period of about 1 second at 50mph. "rrrrrRRRRRrrrrrRRRRRrrrrrrRRRRRrrrrrRRRRRrrrrrRRRRR." I assume this is a harmonic interference between a driveshaft-induced vibration and the engine vibration slightly out of phase, but then I'm no engineer. The bottom line is: if you have this sound, go on tour alone at your own risk! Cheers, Allen
Allen Poole writes about driveshaft failures & prior evidence thereof. When a driveshaft failure is imminent it is usually apparent through increased vibration through the footpegs & seat while riding. This can go unnoticed because it is a progressive change. A better diagnostic is to check for vibration or "clicking" when the rear wheel is rotated gently by hand while the bike is on the centerstand. This will usually indicate either driveshaft or transmission output shaft bearing problems well before failure. (Don't start & run the bike in gear on the centerstand; it is dangerous and will produce horrible universal joint noises even when everything is OK.) Regards, Kari ------------------------------------- Name: Cal BMW Triumph E-mail: us001421@pop3.interramp.com (Cal BMW Triumph) 03/19/95 11:24:17
Allen.Poole wrote: >*Anyone got info on the maker/specs for the replacement joints? I've found a >shop willing to try installing / balancing new joints on my old shaft, but >haven't gotten to finding the joints yet. Like a fly in amber, my experience halts at the R80G/S. Though it is considerable up to then. Most folks claim that BMW drive shafts cannot be repaired. Bullshit. I can not say for certain about anything later than R80G/S's... but I have repaired them. For that matter, I grafted the part that attaches to the transmission from a /5 to the shaft of a /2 for my conversion. Generally, it is not the "X" portion of the u-joint that wears out. It is the needle bearings. You can press apart the ujoint and replace the needle bearings. The old ones are swedged in (little stomp marks). When you put the new ones in, to get them to stay, you select a washer that has the same O.D. as the bearing and set it on top of the bearing (4 required). Then you tack weld the washers in two or three spots. The bearings? In May of 1992, I bought some from Motion Industries in Nashville, TN. (615/244-7885 ?) for $4.86 each. You can probably get them from any BIG industrial bearing house. INA BK1312 (needle) Allen, if this guy can do a good job rebuilding shafts, there is a LOT of money to be made. There are LOADS of tired shafts out there that could be refitted for $25 worth of bearings and washers, saving their owners a few hundred dollars each. =========================================================================== "Far away is far away only if you don't go there." -O Povo,Fortaleza,Brazil Flash@DeathStar.org - David.Braun@hmpd.com - DoD # 412
Fri, 18 Oct 1996 Reply-To: Dave@Action.reno.nv.us To: BMW -GS motorcycles mailing list (bmw-gs@micapeak.com) Subject: Aftermarket U-Joints for a GS
An indivual named Erich Demant, Joh. Seb. Bach Str. 22, 74193 Schwaigem, Germany makes replacement u-joints for beemer shafts, /5 up to R1100's. I don't have any personal knowledge of these but, they have received a favorable review in the Airheads club newsletter from someone who installed one. This is a fairly reliable source of such info. One U-Joint costs $50. There is a one year warranty. You must lubricate it every 15,000 miles - It has nipples for a grease gun applied lube.
He will mail you just U-Joints or you send him your shaft and he charges $100 to install replacement joints. If you send him the shaft Write down Broken Drive Shaft, No Value on the box or he has to pay a customs duty. Why doesn someone give him a try and report back to the list. I would do it, but I am just a profiler and don't use the bike. Ha, Ha.
Maybe Franz Joseph could ride over to his shop and check it out.
Best David Rankine