From chinacat!devnull.mpd.tandem.com!joe Sun Jan 9 09:22:09 1994 From: dje@mail.bellcore.com (Don Eilenberger) Subject: Still looking.. this is what I've found.. Date: Sun, 21 Nov 93 22:28:25 EST Bimmernuts: I'm still looking for a 2 wheeler with the Roundel on it.. and this is what I've found so far: '79 R65, 29k miles, Krauser bags, brown, runs perfect.. $2,200 obo '81 R80GS, PD tank, runs great - $2,000 Both of these are for sale by the same guy.. he happens to be "a BMW mechanic" (he says).. and the GS isn't his.. it's a customer who has moved to Brazil (girl type customer). He claims that if there aren't what I want - or aren't around next weekend when I'll have a chance to see them (they're about 1.5hr's away) - that he sees others that are for sale, or could be for sale all the time.. so just tell him what I want. The R65 - may be a bit underengined for me - my last bike was a Norton Commando 850 (1975) - and it is nice having a bike with lots of power... THe R80GS is interesting - since the engine is starting to get in the displacement region I like - and as best I can tell - the GS is one weird bike.. take one of the worlds most expensive 2 wheelers, add some knobby's, some trick paint and tanks, etc.. and you've got?? Not seeking to be flamed here - I used to ride enduro - and can not imagine trying to honk a 500lb motorcycle with two large cylinders sticking out down any sorta dirt trail! If this puppy got stuck in some of our famous NJ bottomless mud - I'd never see it again. So.. it's sorta like making a statement, but I'm not quite sure what the statement is. I would guess this is an ideal bike for dirt road exploring.. anyone own one and care to comment? (This one was apparently used as a city bike... the young lady who owned it was a production manager in NYC..). Anyway - still looking. I did stop at the BMW dealer to mooch their colorful sales material, so I'd have some idea as to what models are what - back in the Norton days, there were two models.. the Commando (which I had) and the Interstate (which was a Commando with a REALLY big tank - and a really comfortable saddle). Was pretty easy to remember which is which. It appears that if you count all the variations BMW has on their different models.. there are about 15-20 to remember. The other thing - after almost two decades of not having looked seriously at bike prices that I noticed is that they're awful damn high! Even Japanese bikes are big $$$ - and the new BMW's would buy a nice small car - (well, a more or less nice Korean small car). Best... Don Eilenberger (dje@mail.bellcore.com) >From chinacat!devnull.mpd.tandem.com!joe Sun Jan 9 09:22:17 1994 From: dje@mail.bellcore.com (Don Eilenberger) Subject: R65's ?? To: bmw@rider.cactus.org Date: Tue, 28 Dec 93 16:04:30 EST Dear Beemerphiliacs! At noemi's urging (note - the lowercase first initial...), I'm asking for collective net wisdom on an R65 I will probably obtain tomorrow. BACKGROUND: Being of unsound mind (anyone rides one'a them motorsikles is crazy..), and tired of other family members spending ALL the money, I decided to get back into 2 wheeler's. Since I've had SO much fun with my BMW automobile (mostly fixing it) - what else but a BMW bike (plus I've reached MIDDLE age [provided I live close to 100] - so we don't want something TOO fast now do we??). Anyway - apparently the rest of the family did a pretty good job in spending ALMOST ALL the money, so my budget for this idea is fairly restricted - at least in the short term. So..... I found a 1979 R65 (I believe /7 - as far as other appelations - I'm unsure) with low milage - good tires - good appearance (other than an EZBerg seat and a Vetter fairing - both correctable faults) for about $600 or so (US money, payable in advance thank you!). The hitch: It was in a flood. The second hitch: It's an R65 (more on this later). Hitch#1: Last year, we in NJ had what the newsies called "The Nor'Easter of the Century" - i.e. a good storm with some flooding. This bike had been put away for the winter in a shed. The shed became boyant and went for a short trip - with the bike in it. The bike went over on it's side, but wasn't damaged by this.. it was damaged by being partly immersed in salt water. The damage I see: 1. Carbs are trash. Innerds dissolved. Replacements come with the bike - rebuilts. 2. Water got in one cylinder. Was flushed with WD40. Engine is not seized (at least now) - does burp brown goop from this cylinder (with a WD40'ish / rust look to it). Other cylinder looks OK. Removed valve covers and looked - very light surface rust on a few components - nothing serious looking. Engine oil looks clear and clean. 3. Alternator has light surface corrosion on metal parts - does not look too severe. Probably (famous last word) clean and reassemble should do it. Starter - got wet - solenoid has some surface rust on it - will have to be removed and disassembled and checked out. Stuff that looks OK: Tires excellent No rust on anything important Brakes work Cables look OK Rear oil looks clear - no signs of rust Stuff that is questionable: Electronics in general. Since the battery had been removed, the diodes etc. should be OK - but the wire connecting everything may not. Will look for a harness off a wreck. Relays appear to have stayed dry (popped a few open and looked) - if not, they're the same as the ones for my car - which I have spares for. Handlebar switches - disassemble/clean - if not, look for ones off wrecks. Engine bore - this engine has steel liners, so a rebore is not impossible. Best case - pull cylinders and light hone/new rings. Worst case - new pistons, rebore. OK - about the Vetter. I didn't like it when they were new, and I don't like it now. Would look for a Parabellum Sport fairing. I guess I could learn to love the EZBerg - if it is really comfortable. OK - about the R65 - it is my understanding (ready to be corrected) that this model will probably NEVER be considered a collectable (was this gently enough phrased?). Apparently, there were a few engineering revisions made to the R65's during the production run to make it more user friendly. Your comments on this would be very welcome! My plans: Buy it. Fix it. Make it how **I** want it (cranberry red, with the sport fairing). Ride it (crazy - but that's how I am!) Comments by other R65 owners as to what to watch for - what they wish they could do to theirs - neat ideas - more or less anything would be most welcome. If you don't want to burden the list with them - feel free to EMAIL directly to me at dje@mail.bellcore.com Thanx... Don Eilenberger DoD#1177, BMW 535i, BMW R65/? *maybe* >From chinacat!devnull.mpd.tandem.com!joe Sun Jan 9 09:22:22 1994 From: dje@mail.bellcore.com (Don Eilenberger) Subject: R65 revisited (AGAIN!).. or.. To: bmw@rider.cactus.org Date: Wed, 29 Dec 93 21:43:43 EST or.. building a bike via the internet! Beemeruppers! As you probably know - I'm considering an R65 project - and came here for advice. I've gotten it! Thanks! noemi has been very helpful in clearing up a few things that confused me (some of which were actually R65 related). I - in the meantime, have been waffling from one side of the fence to the other - should I or shouldn't I. On the should I side: 1. I talked to the owner today - it's mine for $500 if I want it 2. I can't really afford to spring REAL money for a bike right now.. (actually I can probably afford it - but the social repercussions make a monthly investment route more acceptable.. you know.. $500 this month - $400 next month - pretty much buying the bike in pieces). 3. I already cleaned a space in the garage to work on it - and sorted out my metric wrenches (this is a MAJOR step! - hate to waste it! - if I don't fill this space with a bike, the rest of the family will fill it with their STUFF - which isn't anywhere near as good as MY stuff). 4. It's stupid stuff like this that keeps life interesting... 5. My mechanic friend thinks I should - he claims (probably correctly) that I'm obsessive - and even if I bought a the very best BMW in the world I'd have to take it appart and rebuild it to my idea of how they should be built.. so I may as well start with one that actually needs it. (I guess he could be right - since I've done this with the BMW 535i I own - and just about every other car and bike I've ever owned. There are people who are just WAITING until I get bored with a car so they can get it.. which is part of the reason for this project - to get me away from the damn car and the computer!) On the I shouldn't side: 1. This bike is REALLY a mess. - the former owner must have thought that adding wiring to a bike is fun! - So besides the damage from salt water immersion to the electronics - the harness has major hacking been done to it - and stray wires wandering all over - lots of them not connected to anything.. just bare ends wavin' in the breeze! 2. It's missing some sorta essencial stuff.. when the Veter (can you say UGLY!) fairing was installed - the headlight shell, mounts, all of it went missing. Since I hated how Windjammers looked when they were new - and they ain't improved in my eyes - this has gotta go - but now I need a small item like a headlight shell, mounts, etc. Guess I **could** patch something together from a Jap wreck - but... Also missing are both battery sidecovers. From what I've heard from people on the list - lots (most) of the parts for the R65 are - to quote the ChurchLady "special!" - and only for this particular bike. Anyone know about the sidecovers - there are /6 /7 ones in BMW OwnersNews and OTL - but will they fit? New is probably Lots and Lots of $$$. 3. It is entirely possible to overinvest in this bike. Yep! Won't be the first time I've done this (lets see - I've got a 25' sailboat I bought for $1,000 - so far I've got about another $5,000 into it - what's it worth - I'd like to think more than $6,000 - but.... probably more like $4,500. Could I own a 25' sailboat if I hadn't bought it cheap and fixed it up? NOPE! - Could afford it - but the social repercussions would have gotten in the way again). Guess I gotta go with the passion on this - leave common sense out of it! OK - what to do! Dammit Eilenberger - shit or get off the pot! So - tomorrow morning I spring for the $500. And what I'd like to do is BUILD A BIKE VIA THE INTERNET! Show that the information highway is ALREADY here! (Maybe write an article on it). What I'll need is help! Jim Bessette already volunteered physical help (which is great - 'cause he's big and strong - and the engine is gonna come outa this puppy).. The help I'll need is parts locating! Anyone know the whereabouts of a headlight shell, rim, mounts? Anyone have a spare (used - old but good) starter, alternator in basement? Ted Packard thinks he may have a wiring harness for me.. anyone else have any sorta parts they don't really need - but were too good to throw out? How about a stock seat? (The seat on this puppy right now looks pretty much like the one in the Scootervill BMW ad for their trunk kit - but with HEAVY duty diamond tufting - looks more or less like it belongs in a whorehouse - or on a Harley)... Anyway - any sorta stuff you've got - that you think I might be able to use - EMAIL me! I can buy stuff in installments - and we can show the power of the internet! Plus - it sounds like fun! Best.. Don (dje@mail.bellcore.com) hopefully - falling off the fence! >From chinacat!devnull.mpd.tandem.com!joe Sun Jan 9 09:22:02 1994 From: dje@mail.bellcore.com (Don Eilenberger) Subject: Re: rec.mc and R65 To: bmw@rider.cactus.org Date: Thu, 30 Dec 93 17:43:47 EST Well... as of about 2:30PM today - I also now am a "proud?" owner of a '79 R65. Finally got off the fence (was chafing my butt). Use the traditional rational decision maker - a coin - to decide. Two flips resulted in two heads - resulted in two votes to buy it - so call me wacky - I did. $500 - cash. Tomorrow the wreck comes home - and the great Internet Build a BMW Motorcycle challange begins (IBBM? ... hmmmm... think they'll sue?). I'm calling on all good BMW/'Netters to search your garage/basement/under the bed for unused, unloved, unwanted boxer parts that might fit this beast. Recompense will be in many thinks profusely sent personally to your EMAIL box - or in the case of real hard cases.. probably some currency of some sort. Looking for: Headlight - the complete thing, wiring and all. Mounts, bowl, rim, even the bulb if you've got it. Chrome would be nice - but not necessary. It's either a used one or (horrors!) one off a Japanese wreck. Stock or better looking seat! The Ride-All-Day EZBerg clone (isn't even the real thing) is REALLY comfortable.. but look like it belongs in a 1950's cocktail lounge.. tufted black vinyl! Anyone got a stock one? Or ?? Any sorta electronics.. anything you've got for a boxer. My guess is switches and stuff are more or less the same for the same era bikes.. anyone gone electronic ignition and have the old distributor laying around? EMail me what'cha got - PLEASE! The challange has begun! Can the internet save poor Don from the foolishness of his ways? Only YOU can help! Don Eilenberger ' 87 BMW 535i (der car) ' 79 BMW R65 (more or less der motorcycle - maybe) ps: I will actually attempt to document this fiasco - will probably make a nice article for one of the clubs. DoD#1177 (buying this wreck is probably a pretty squidly thing to do - but I can't find a section for it).. >From chinacat!devnull.mpd.tandem.com!joe Sun Jan 9 09:21:58 1994 From: dje@mail.bellcore.com (Don Eilenberger) Subject: R65 so far.. To: bmw@rider.cactus.org Date: Sat, 1 Jan 94 10:29:32 EST Beemernutters... The saga, so far: 12/31/93 11:00AM - bike arrives on the back of a trailer to my garage - pushed into the garage through snow. 12/31/93 1:00PM - Jim Bessette shows up - we push bike back out of garage for the BEFORE picture session. Jim takes pics - I take pics - we push bike back into garage. 12/31/93 1:10PM - disassembly starts. Tank off. Alternator stator off and pine needles cleaned from behind it. Air cleaner housing removed. Points assembly removed and disassembled. After a few hours - lots of small crap is removed and cataloged. Jim has to leave. UGLY stuff removed - floorboards, crashbars (badly rusted - and not too attractive to begin with). Starter removed. Transmission engine split - but not removed. Analysis of stuff: Hooked 12v source to where battery should go - starter is junk. Some things work - lots of electronics doesn't, or works wrong. Some is the result of previous owners electronic enhancements (marked by wires going no-where and joints wrapped in duct tape).. so ?? The starter appears to be frozen - will be checking with a BOSCH dealer - it may be same as one in a VW. Handlebar switches seem to switch - and disassembly shows no corrosion. Made in Japan! (Go figure!). After starter was removed could see part of flywheel and clutch assembly - looks like it needs disassembly/cleaning at least - so loosen bolts to see if tranny/engine cases can be split easily - they can be moved, so next have to remove rear drive and remove tranny. So far - no real bad surprises, but it was good to be surprised about the condition of the handlebar switches - that they look useable. Will keep you posted on progress! Don Eilenberger (dje@mail.bellcore.com) >From chinacat!devnull.mpd.tandem.com!joe Sun Jan 9 09:21:47 1994 From: dje@mail.bellcore.com (Don Eilenberger) Subject: Re: R65's and VW parts To: bmw@rider.cactus.org Date: Sun, 2 Jan 94 21:02:07 EST I'll find out about the starter tomorrow (I hope).. I have a contact at a BOSCH distributor's who can crossref via the Bosch number on the starter. If anyone is REALLY curious - I could weigh the bugger before I put it back in the bike... but as a guess - it's over 25lbs of starter (and not a great deal smaller than the one on my 535i [der car]). Still hoping someone has the contact points assembly from a 79-81 boxer.. once I get the heads done.. that will be the biggy holding me up from starting up the engine.. Will be taking the heads to get worked over tomorrow - the cold I caught working in the garage sorta convinced me to pay for some labor.. Don Eilenberger (dje@mail.bellcore.com) '87 535i, 79 R65 diassembled >From chinacat!devnull.mpd.tandem.com!joe Sun Jan 9 09:22:13 1994 From: dje@mail.bellcore.com (Don Eilenberger) Subject: R65 disassembly, continued.. (Day 2) To: bmw@rider.cactus.org Date: Sun, 2 Jan 94 00:56:53 EST Day 2: Jan. 1, 1994 Today was pull the heads day. This required removing the exhaust nuts, the exhausts, and the heads themselves. Removing the exhaust nuts is a bit of a challange. I gather that the usual proceedure - especially with ones that have been on for a while requires destroying them in the process. This was more or less the case here - although they could be reused - they are not terribly attractive, and they go on the list of things to replace. I used a chain wrench for lack of the offical BMW nut wrench (I used to have an offical Norton nut wrench - and since the nuts on the Norton [ ? Norton Nuts ? ] were of chromed cast iron - they were reusable - the wrench went away somewhere - and probably wouldn't have worked on the soft aluminum ones on the bmw anyway).. anyhow - I heated the nuts with a propane torch (get's 'em hot without getting them TOO hot - ie: warp time) - and with some hefty grunts - they finally came loose from the heads. One exhaust pipe was fairly easy to remove - after taking the rear mounting bolts off, it could be moved forwards. The center crossover headpipe was more of a challange - but finally yielded.. to reveal ABOUT 2 GALLONS OF SALTY GOOKY WATER - smelled AWFUL! was sitting in the exhausts (this explains why the cylinders kept filling up with water!). Each exhaust let loose with a torrent of this awful looking and smelling water (sorta black, oily, smelly - think of your worst industrial waste dream..). Finally was able to empty them out in a trash can. Heads come off easily once the exhaust is off - a few bolts and nuts - and off they come. Once the cylinders are dried out - they look EXCELLENT! No rusting or pitting - and traces of the original crosshatching can be seen. The heads also look OK - except for the crud on the back of the valves - mostly carbon, some rust. Next step - take the heads to a machine shop and have them worked over.. (I do have the big c-clamp valve keeper release - so I could do it myself - and may. Gonna think about it .. may try disassembly of the heads and then hand grinding of the valves.. then again.. may just pay to have them done and the heads glassbeaded).. Will keep you informed! Don Eilenberger (dje@mail.bellcore.com) PS: Still looking for a points module - this is the round thingy that runs off the camshaft. Located bottom front on the engine - has the points for the ignition and the advance mechanism in it. Anyone with a '78-81 boxer who has gone electronic got one sitting around? Or can anyone recommend which electronic iginition replaces this entire module? >From chinacat!devnull.mpd.tandem.com!joe Sun Jan 9 09:21:52 1994 From: dje@mail.bellcore.com (Don Eilenberger) Subject: Re: R65 disassembly, continued.. (Day 3) To: bmw@rider.cactus.org Date: Sun, 2 Jan 94 21:17:51 EST Day 3: Awoke this AM to a miserable head cold... which my spouse made some comment about "working in a freezing garage for two days". Accomplished NO real bike work, except taking exhausts out of trash can they were draining into (finally can move them without sloshing noises inside), and packing the heads to take to be worked over. Total time on bike: 10 minutes. Rest of day spent riding the NJ Turnpike (come tour an amazing area of toxic waste - sorta Disneyland for the envionmental rapists) to and from Newark airport - departing holiday guests. Hoping to make progress tomorrow on heads and starter - if the cold isn't TOO bad (maybe just bad enough not to go to work.. but not too bad for a few phone calls)... Don (dje@mail.bellcore.com) '87 535i (der car) '79 R65 (der bike) >From chinacat!rider!root Mon Jan 3 17:21:32 1994 From: bmw@rider.cactus.org (Don Eilenberger) Subject: R65 - Day 4 X-Original-Sender: dje@mail.bellcore.com Date: 3 Jan 94 16:02:33 CST (Mon) Beemerphreaks! Day 4 dawned - and I didn't, The head cold kept me in bed until about 1PM.. but after a hearty shower - and warm chicken soup.. I managed to get started on the project for a bit. I called a mechanic friend (a car/bike nut) - and asked who he used for machine work - and he offered to call his secret machinest, and tell him it would be ok to do some work for me.. he did, and then told me the route to the completely hidden/unmarked building the mechanic works in. I went there - and had a nice chat with him (to get him to do work - it is apparently best to chat him up with guns/wooden boats/airplanes - which I did). He didn't see any problem with doing the heads - and thought he'd have them done friday or so. Will be disassembling them, cut the valves, glass bead, chase the exhaust threads - check the guides, the usual stuff. When I got home - I started a round of phone calls to various use parts places - all of whom thought it either humerous, brave, foolish, or just plain goofy to be restoring an R65 - but what the heck! So far - I only got a few prices - so I can't tell you how I will fair in the quest of used stuff. When more come in, I'll pass the results on! As I mentioned to Sven-Eric - the Bosch people took today as a holiday - so no word on the starter (and what else it might fit) yet. Will let you know! thanks all for the kind words of encouragement - I'll press on regardless! Don Eilenberger (dje@mail.bellcore.com) '87 535i (works) '79 R65 (don't work yet) >From chinacat!rider!root Tue Jan 4 16:44:35 1994 From: bmw@rider.cactus.org (Don Eilenberger) Subject: R65 - Day 5 X-Original-Sender: dje@mail.bellcore.com Date: 4 Jan 94 15:46:58 CST (Tue) This is a nothing much to report day. I still have the cold, the machine shop still has the heads, and the east coast has a storm (snow, ice, rain, wind - the usual. Gets the newsies out interviewing the guy who runs the plows.. like NOTHING LIKE THIS HAS **EVER** HAPPENED BEFORE!!).. I called most of the places I called yesterday to see if they've located any parts and what the prices would be.. Bent Beemer keeps telling me about medical procedures he's undergoing - including NMR scans.. Tom at Bob's BMW claims he's been as busy as a one-armed paperhanger.. but none of them actually have any prices for me yet. Chris at eurotech did have prices and knew what he has in stock (the MIRACLE OF COMPUTING!).. but I wanted to check a few other prices before ordering. If it isn't too cold tonight - I may bundle up and go sit in the garage for a bit staring at the project.. thinking about taking what's left of the engine out of the frame (with the tranny). It looks to me like this would be easier than splitting the engine/tranny and taking them out seperately. Just do thinking tonight.. still have enough cold that I don't want to push it. Best.. Don >From chinacat!rider!root Tue Jan 4 23:45:27 1994 From: bmw@rider.cactus.org (Don Eilenberger) Subject: Re: R65's and VW parts X-Original-Sender: dje@mail.bellcore.com Date: 4 Jan 94 23:21:26 CST (Tue) As far as the starter discussion.. so far, I said maybe a VW starter.. and.. J. Eric Townsend said: > > I seriously doubt it. VW air-cooled starters are huge and heavy. Maybe not a VW, but certainly some european auto. A friend did this with the alternator on his Moto Guzzi once. The identical same part, same Bosch part number and all, was about 30% the price the Guzzi folks wanted. ....paul spencer said.. Hopefully I will know tomorrow. I took the beastie down to my workbench in the basement (which is heated) and started looking at it to see if there was ANY chance of saving it. I took the two long screws out that hold the basic motor assembly together.. and they were severely rusted - on the part that is INSIDE the starter. I then took the rear bearing cap off - and grabbed the end of the shaft with a pair of gas pliers - with LOTS of effort I was able to get it to turn - and lots of rust and small dried up sealife fell out the other end (where the bendix is).. so me thinks it is trash! Got a few prices on used ones for about $125 - but will be waiting to see if I can get a rebuilt one from Bosch - using the Bosch part#. While it may not be from a VW - those of us in the US tend to forget that there are LOTS of small displacement cars made in Europe - which don't need a starter capable of turning over a 3 liter engine.. and I doubt if BMW makes enough bikes per year for Bosch to design a special starter for each model.. I would guess it would cost BMW less to look at what is available that will do the job, and design around it. For an example of what creative parts shopping will do - the O2 sensor for my '87 BMW 535i lists from BMW for over $150. The best I could find it discount was about $135. I tracked down the specs and found that Bosch also makes the 3 wire O2 sensor Ford uses for the 5.0 Mustang engine.. which I bought for $40 from a Ford dealer. Required splicing 3 wires to install. Guess what most of the readers of the BMW car list use when they need a new O2 sensor? Ford part DV505... Will let 'ya know what I find out on the starter. Don Eilenberger (dje@mail.bellcore.com) >From chinacat!rider!root Tue Jan 4 23:54:38 1994 From: bmw@rider.cactus.org (Don Eilenberger) Subject: R65 day 5 (appendium) X-Original-Sender: dje@mail.bellcore.com Date: 4 Jan 94 23:36:45 CST (Tue) I think I'm still on day 5... Finally been talking to people with some parts to sell.. strangely enough - the prices of used parts seems to be fairly constant. All of them want $65-75 for a harness. All of them want $150 for points housing. Hmm.... So.. since I felt sorry for Bent Beemer - he got my first order for a few items (the headlight mounting bracket, the housing for the instruments [hacked to mount the fairing] a few other odds and ends) to the tune of about $100. Will call Eurotech tomorrow to see about the harness - they have one that wasn't hacked for a windjammer. So.. if anyone has a points housing for a 79-81 Boxer they're not using, and wants a few $$$ in their pocket .. EMAIL quickly before I talk Bob's BMW into giving me a deal. Also spent some time polishing one of the valve covers - trying to decide if I like this vs the blasted blasted look. This was done more or less for something to do - I still have a bit of the cold, and the garage was still too cold to work in. Maybe later this week - pull the engine (Jim B - you available Thursday PM?) Don Eilenberger (dje@mail.bellcore.com) '87 535i '79 R65 (sorta) >From chinacat!rider!root Thu Jan 6 12:32:02 1994 From: bmw@rider.cactus.org (Don Eilenberger) Subject: R65 - day 6 - later II X-Original-Sender: dje@mail.bellcore.com Date: 6 Jan 94 12:12:59 CST (Thu) sorry about that.. a slip of the finger told unix to send the mail.. so continued: Anyway - at this point I have the rear wheel off, and I'm feeling pretty pleased since I didn't see any real water/corrosion damage in this area (splines and brakes look fine - drum needed a little 120 opencoat paper to clean up - but basically looks just fine). So I now do steps 6 and 7 or so, which are removing the driveshaft boot in preparation of unbolting the driveshaft. OK.. these steps are done.. and I turn the page where step 10 says "have your helper APPLY THE BRAKE to hold the driveshaft from turning.." well, damn me! The brake really dosen't seem to do a damn thing with the wheel off! CLYMERS STRIKES AGAIN! So, studying the situation a bit more - I find that besides doing all this - I'm supposed to take the 27mm nuts off the swingarm pivots so I can back the swingarm away from the tranny and move it backwards. To do this you need a "special 27mm socket - one ground down to fit inside the swingarm and reach the nut. I no got - I don't even find a 27mm socket, and at 11PM, Sears is closed. SO - Back on goes the wheel (milk crate, 30 degrees, curse, axle, nut, etc). Reconnect brake. Curse at Clymer. Look in book some more - find that if removing engine - you don't have to pull the swingarm - so.. tomorrow night! (Jim promised to bring his Haynes manual - and mine might arrive by tomorrow). Anyway - that was the fun for this evening! From 7 to about 11:45PM.. with 30 minutes for chow. Sure beat workin' !! Don Eilenberger (dje@mail.bellcore.com) >From chinacat!rider!root Thu Jan 6 12:32:05 1994 From: bmw@rider.cactus.org (Don Eilenberger) Subject: R65 Day 6.. X-Original-Sender: dje@mail.bellcore.com Date: 6 Jan 94 12:13:26 CST (Thu) Beemernuts! Spent some time today on the phone chasing parts.. with the following results: Bob's BMW (Tom) seems awfully vague on the phone. Sorta - oh yeah, we've got that (long pause while thinking is going on).. let me check... oh, yeah.. etc.. etc. Today they did not have parts that they thought they had yesterday. So, I called Chris Canterbury at Eurotech (recommended by Noemi). Chris actually seems to know what he has, and was willing to dicker a bit on price since I was buying LOTS of stuff. I ordered from him: Starter - $125 Harness - $75 Points housing - $150 The reason I ended up getting a used starter (he started out asking $200 - but adjusted it downwards since everyone else asked $125) is that my Bosch source called BOSCH USA, who knew the number - and said "yes - that is for a BMW motorcycle" - and they only have them BRAND NEW for about $500. (No rebuilts which are actually new). Needless to say, this set me off to find a used one. Between the order with Eurotech, and the order with Bent Beemer (between his NMR scans) - I have ALMOST everything big that I think I'll need. Bent Beemers order was: HL Mount (not the lamp/housing) - $35 Inst. Housing/Crash Pad - $35 Handlebar Clamps - $15 /pair So far - everyone was willing to match everyone elses prices - which appear to be about 50% of new list price although, some dickering can be done. What I'm still missing is the headlight bucket/rim/reflector. I'm hoping for some net wisdom on this item. Bent has a bucket. He does not have the rim or reflector. I'm willing to be raped by BMW for the rim - but the real question is the actual headlamp itself. Bent seems to think that this lamp is UNIQUE to BMW. Any ideas on this?? The Windjammer has a BOSCH h/l in it - one which will fit into a standard 7" auto h/l bucket. From what Bent said - he didn't think this will fit into the BMW bucket. Anyone know for sure what will or won't fit? Future plans: Looks like thursday is pull the engine night, and split the engine/trans to look at the clutch. Will let you know what I find! Don Eilenberger (dje@mail.bellcore.com) >From chinacat!rider!root Thu Jan 6 12:40:06 1994 From: bmw@rider.cactus.org (Don Eilenberger) Subject: R65 - day 6 - later X-Original-Sender: dje@mail.bellcore.com Date: 6 Jan 94 12:19:27 CST (Thu) Beemernaughts! Tonights wrenching session (a very pleasureable one) was mostly more disassembly. A few more VERY ugly parts of the bike joined the other ugliness as far from the bike as possible given my garage dimensions. In preparation for Jim Bessettes visit tomorrow evening to help me remove the engine.. I: 1. Removed the WINDJAMMER! - Boy! The bike looks MUCH better without it - even without a headlight and with the hacked instrument housing. Looks about 500lbs lighter (probably only about 60lbs in reality). Interesting how Vetter used common angle steel and a few bent pieces of pipe to fashion the brackets. If anyone is interested in an almost mint WJ-III in basic black, with the brackets (do they fit other R bikes?) - best offer gets it (the windshield looks perfect - no scratches, dings, etc). 2. Removed at least 1/2 a gross of little wiring additions done by the previous owner (these weren't all caused by the windjammer - most of them were sheer assholeism). There wasn't a lot of reason really to do this - I have a new harness on the way, but it was VERY satisfying for some reason, and once I started I found it hard to stop! Part of it was useful since I had to de-wire the engine for removal anyway. 3. Thought (actually started) to remove the tranny.. the thought came to me (wrongly) that it would be easier to remove the engine if I removed the tranny first. Carefully following the Clymer R manual.. I went through steps 1-4 or so (draining, disconnecting things) and then got to someplace around step 5 - which was "remove rear wheel as outlined in Chpt 10" ok - so I go to chpt 10 and see how to remove the wheel - loosen big nut (OK - no problem).. loosen clamp nut on other side (sounds just like the Norton so far), pull axle (still OK) - remove wheel. RIGHT! Like the tire will actually fit between the brake shoes and the left side of the swingarm (this ain't a one-armer). Look some more in Clymer -they mention if it won't fit, perhaps tilting the bike to the right will ease it's removal. They suggest having a helper steady the bike. My helper is me.. so I put a milk crate under the right cylinder (the head is off - but the cylinder is still there) - and lay the bike over at about 30 degrees. I can JUST wedge the wheel/tire out (some engineering these BMW's eh? Ya, Klaus.. you hold bike on side while I remove wheel!) >From chinacat!rider!root Fri Jan 7 11:35:14 1994 From: bmw@rider.cactus.org (Don Eilenberger) Subject: Day 6 - wheel removal revisited X-Original-Sender: dje@eve.bellcore.com Date: 7 Jan 94 11:28:13 CST (Fri) Beemerphanatics: I received lots of suggestions on the wheel removal (glad I'm not the only one who finds this a bit difficult): >From Paul Tretheway: ====================================================================== > shoes and the left side of the swingarm (this ain't > a one-armer). Look some more in Clymer -they mention > if it won't fit, perhaps tilting the bike to the right > will ease it's removal. They suggest having a helper I used an extra large C-clamp to pinch the tire together when I had to do this. It worked great. > steady the bike. My helper is me.. so I put a milk > crate under the right cylinder (the head is off - > but the cylinder is still there) - and lay the bike > over at about 30 degrees. I can JUST wedge the > wheel/tire out (some engineering these BMW's eh? Imagine changing a tire at the side of the road. Paul Trethewey '74 R60/6 with ME55A on rear. ====================================================================== Hmmm... a friend suggested the big C clamp after I did it - since my tool kit is missing - is this standard issue?? >From Jeff at MRI.COM ====================================================================== Re: removing the rear wheel I've found that if you deflate the wheel even partially you can usually wiggle it out. When fully inflated it's a real battle to remove or put back in. Jonathan (jeff@mri.com) ====================================================================== This I guess is OK - unless you're doing this at the side of the road. Does a tire pump come standard in the tool kit?? So you can inflate it after fixing the flat? >From noemi.. ====================================================================== >"remove rear wheel as outlined in Chpt 10" > >Like the tire will actually fit between the brake >shoes and the left side of the swingarm (this ain't >a one-armer). Look some more in Clymer -they mention >if it won't fit, perhaps tilting the bike to the right >will ease it's removal. They suggest having a helper >steady the bike. My helper is me.. so I put a milk >crate under the right cylinder (the head is off - >but the cylinder is still there) - and lay the bike >over at about 30 degrees. Hey, that's a good one! A while ago I asked people what their methods of rear-wheel removal on a non-single-sided swingarm are -- I don't think anyone came up with that one. Amazing what a fresh perspective can do. I'll use that one next time instead of tilting the bike from the centerstand onto the sidestand! Now ask yourself what you'd do at the side of the road, with no milk crates, lifts, or helpers handy to fix a tire. (My last-ditch no-other-choice solution: take off the front wheel first.) noemi -- noemi@synoptics.com '83 BMW R65LS (NM) ===================================================================== I think neomi's last paragraph sums up what I was trying to say! Changing the rear wheel/tire would be difficult to impossible on the side of the road. (She was right in catching that the reason to lean the bike is to clear the rear fender). Guess there is a good reason for the 1 armed swingarm! Don >From chinacat!rider!root Fri Jan 7 14:11:07 1994 From: bmw@rider.cactus.org (Don Eilenberger) Subject: R65 - Day 7 X-Original-Sender: dje@eve.bellcore.com Date: 7 Jan 94 13:56:40 CST (Fri) Beemer-peoples: Well.. one week later - the engine is out of the frame, and disassembly is moving right along. Hurrah! The Haynes manual finally arrived. As with my past experiences with automotive manuals - the Haynes manuals beat Clymer HANDS DOWN! They are more accurate, and are written by people AS THEY ACTUALLY DO THE WORK DESCRIBED! They also show the use of workarounds wherever possible for "factory tools".. Last night (day 7) Jim Bessette came over to help me get the engine/transmission out of the frame. There were a few more wires to remove (and the imfamous diode board). I also removed the four 12 point bolts that hold the drive shaft to the transmission flange, and we were ready to forge ahead. I used a block of wood behind the transmission - about 2.5"x1" to block up the rear to the frame (supporting it via the output flange boss) - and removed the rear bolt. We next used a block of wood and my automotive 2 ton floor jack to support the front of the engine under the oil pan.. and removed the front bolt. Jim - more or less - singlehandly lifted the engine/tranny out of the frame and onto my workbench (as Jim says it, he is not "height disadvantaged" - and it was easier for him than it would have been for me). On the bench, our first project was to remove the transmission from the engine. Due to general corrosion of the clutch mechanism (and rust on the splines) - it require some coaxing (with tapered wedges) to get the two to split. When they did - the sight was not pleasant. The clutch assembly looked like trash with the amount of rust that had occured (although the transmission splines looked OK - a bit of surface rust - but no wear noticable). I then using a Haynes recommended technique - disassembled the clutch. It still looked pretty bad. Getting discouraged with this.. Jim asked if I was going to pull the engine oil-pan, and figuring maybe this would cheer me up, I did. It did. The crankcase looked much like it would have if the engine was just assembled. No signs of any corrosion, and overall - excellent CLEAN condition. At this point, Jim had to leave, and I decided to just tinker for a while.. which consisted of removing the cylinders to check the condition of the rings - and some additional playing with the clutch components. More on this in the my next message - they just announced that due to the TERRIBLE weather in NJ, we can leave early... Don (dje@mail.bellcore.com) Don Eilenberger Bellcore 331 Newman Springs Rd. Red Bank, NJ 07701 Voice: 908-758-3167 FAX: 908-758-3166 EMAIL: dje@mail.bellcore.com